>> what do you think? >> talking about peak apple right now, i agree. buy on the dip. i love apple. >> okay. both of you like apple. that's it for forbes on fox. have a great weekend. ss spot continues withne cheryl casone and "cashin' in". >> now that the health care slaw here to stay, more side effects popping up from the law. despite the president promising it would lower cost wal-mart now warning its employees it will have to pay up to 36% more for health insurance next year. and an owner of dozens of denny's restaurants says the law will force them to cut workers hours and hike prices by 5% on its customers and he's one of ny saying similar things. our guys have been warning this would happen. how bad will this get? i'm cheryl casone. welcome to "cashin' in". our crew we have wayne rogers, jonathan, tracy byrnes and christian is back with us today. so welcome to all of you tracy,

you were one of those on the show, you were warning about the side effects of the health care law. how bad is it going to get? >> it's getting bad already. the unintended consequences are out of control. look, people are going to get laid off. we're hearing that already 'cause companies just don't want to pay for health care. if you have a job, your hours might get cut to part-time or consultant. my brother just got hired as a consultant 'cause nobody wants to pay health car then there is the premium angle of it. we hear at news corps, our premiums are going up because it is getting more expensive. everything is going to be affected by this and we've been saying it since the canaan -- nancy pelosi said she had to read the darn thing. >> i know your criticism is they didn't read it before they passed it, but one of the big criticisms here is that there was no cost control in the law, so heree are. >> well, it's going to be that way. health care costs are rising everywhere. it's a universal problem. the thing is the people are going to try to find ways to get around this in the sense that

it's going to cost them more and if they can find ways, they'll do it. you got 2200 pages of regulation that you're right, nobody has read. the people who administratorring it haven't read it. they're beginning to read it. we don't know what the ultimate cost is going to be. they're going to be taxes that come out of this, all kinds of other things that happen. in the meantime, if you hire over -- this is what is considered a small business -- if there are 50 people or less, you are subject to one thing. if you're hiring re than 50 people, you are subject to something else. if those people work 30 hours a week, they're going to come under obamacare. if they work 28 hours a week or 29 hours a week issues they do not. so what you're going to have is people cutting back the time that people, instead of 40 hour workweek, they'll have more people work 28 hour week. there is going to be all kinds of fallout. >> you're right. you know what, christian, the other point here and the question is, are we going to see mo u.s. companies begin to scale back and kind of fudge the numbers? we've had several ceo's come on

and tell us that's what they're planning to do. >> in a lot of cases what you're talking about, restaurants and other, food service industry, this is what they've been doing for a decade or more so to all of a sudden link this to obamacare is really disingenuous. >> to be fair action the ceo's have said that's what they are blaming. they're coming on television, national television and telling us they blame the health care law. >> they blame it, but they've already been doing it. so they're blaming something that hasn't yet happened for something that they've already been doing. let's take a look at real world experience. let's not speculate. massachusetts very much resembles what obamacare is. since romneycare was instited in massachusetts, employers covering their employees with health insurance has gone up from 70% to 80%. so we can take a real life example, not just wild speculation, and see that there is absolutely no reason why

employers can't cover their employees with health care. >> john, i will say this to you, this is not speculation. these are facts, the heads of these companies are actually making these moves and cutting down and then you've got perfect example of the guy that owns the 40 restaurants in florida, all the denny's, he says i'm going to cut back anddd 5% to the bills of my customers to keep those insure tt had i already have on the books. this is real. >> yeah. this is not wild spelation. this guy at denny's says it cost him an extra $5,000 per employee per year and says if i have to cover all of my employees, that's about $175,000 per restaurant. he said a lot of my restaurants don't make $175,000. so here is a guy who literally cannot afford obamacare and what he's saying is i'm going to have to cut guys back to 28 hours, those at the front. some have to get a second job because they can't afford to live just on 28 hours a week of pay. this is real life situations in these companies and the problem we have is just like tracy said, we had no health care reform.

all we had was insurance reform, sticking more people into a broken system. >> jonathan, at the same time, if you look at the average of what many companies are doing and what they're going to pay, we're look at an average of 9% in higher premiums in 2013. many people are taking the top shelf plans and cutting them ought. >> wal-mart, papa john's, the result of obamacare is destruction. that was obamacare's goal much his goal was not to fix health care. it was to destroy the last remaining advicages of an actual free health care system in this country. obama talked openly about his advocacy for single payer and we're seeing that play out in practice where evy private option is literally snuffed out of existence. i'm more worri about even the health care itself. it's not oy that we're seeing health care option go away, we're seeing doctors lea the practice and leave the practice of medicine in massi scale. health care in this country is about to be as good as the post office of the dmv. stay healthy.

>> that's e thing. there is no medical -- we han't fixed the problem because now you got people that are going to turn down it, like wal-mart. those guys at wal-mart will say t out. i don't want to pay the extra -- >> everyone goes to the public system. there is your single payer. that was obama's goal. >> that's going to destroy the medical system and we will lose all our quality doctors. >> christian? >> wait, wait. go ahead. >> i hate to let facts get in the way of -- >> that's fact! that is fact, christian. >> if you look at restaurants who are already 75% of restaurant employees are working part-time, so what we're talking about now is that they're going to continue o have part-time workers, but those workers are now going to have health insurance. what we're lamenting, what you all are lamenting is the fact at workers whore making an average of about $15,000 a year are going to actually have health insurance now. that's the problem that you all see in our economy. >> they're going to have it at a

job they don't have. that's the whole point, christian. it's not just restaurants. headed by an obama supporters, they're laying off workers. they're a medical supply company. >> they're not going to fire all of their employees. because you can't make any money if you don't have employees. let's get real. let's not pretend. >> okay. let me bring in wayne rogers because wayne, what we're talking about here is maybe companies -- this is christian's point, they're not laying off people. they may be restrucring how they cover the employees that they have. i mean, is that a threat, do you think, to jobs or no? >> well, all due respect to christian, christian, y mentioned that the restaurant business is not necessarily representative. i, as you well know, principle in a business. we employ oer 200 people. it is going to be a big impact on us. we do not know yet what it's going to fully do. are we going to have to lay off some people? yes, we will probably have to lay off some people. we will have to reschedule a lt

of things, a lot of things will be done. we can't certainly absorb it all. that's for sure. so this thing has not been thought tough by the bureaucracy. it wasn't thought through by the people who wrote the bill. they didn't know anything. we've got idiots running it. now we're going to have to try to solve this in some way and it isn't going to be pleasant. some peoplare going to lose their jobs. that is for sure. and some people are going to get cut back and it is not necessarily going to be universal health care surfers. >> my last question to you, i want to ask you, do you think we'll see more americans, because they can't afford the higher premiums, just drop their own health care all together? >> yeah. i think we will. i think what tracy is saying about consultants, she can call it contract labor, i think that's where we're going to go with this system. i don't think you can argue that health premiums are going to go up because we did nothing for health care reform. there is no reason that a heart procedure in one hospital costs 50 times as much in another hospital. there is no transparency. we have not dealt with that. we only dealt with insurance reform. that's going to exacerbate the

fractures. >> well said. everybody, great discussion. thank u so much. coming up, it's not just the fiscal cliff taxpayers should be bracing for. now there is alore's climate cliff. plus a new plan to keep the lights from going out when the next sandy hits. that could hit everyone's

>> forget the pick cliff. are we about to go over the climate cliff? al gore calling for a carbon tax

to be part of the negotiations. he said it will help fight global warming and keep individual tax rates low. wayne, you're cold on this global warming idea and the tax. why? >> well, he's a politician. he's not a climate thomas. it's like asking barney frank to be an expert on bank, although he wrote a banking bill. they're implicating unnecessarily -- they've got a problem already. you're talking about the fiscal cliff, which has to do with taxes and has to do with income and has to do with things that have nhing to do with the climate whatsoever. so to inject this into there to make it unnecessarily economicked and if they did, somebody has got to p for it and they got to figure out some way to do it. this is just makg a mess out of something that's already too difficult to solve. >> who ends up paying for it? companies most likely. i mean, we like to tax really wealthy folks and like to tax companies, especially energy companies. >> yeah. we hate these guys.

look, unfortunately for the environmental movement, al gore was sprayed with human repellant at some point during his life and he has some good ideas. this is not one of them. this is just going to be passed along to consumers and to the companies. this is just a penalty for ing a fossil fuel company. if the production tax credit, which encourages -- it's not a subsidy, it's a t credit for infrastructure for energy, if it's not extended, you'll see renewable energy structure go down 720 to 80%. this is a dumb fight to pick. >> christianwhile some say this is a pretty far fetched idea and it doesn't really stand a chance, at the same time, al gore contend this is would actually help individuals get their tax rates lower because it would be extra revenue. but that would be -- we'd have to make that happen, correct? >> yeah. i think al gore is right about the policy of a carbon tax, but wrong about the timing. we do need a carbon tax because right now the price of carbon fuels is not account for the

cost, pollution, health care and otherwise. that's a market failure. that's a market distortion. you need to fix that. but a well designed carbon tax has to be revenue neutral. it has to be offset wi reductions and payroll tax which is is not part of our current fiscal discussion. so he's right about the policy, but really wrong about the timing. >> jonathan, they would have to accomplish that to hold back and not spend the revenues from a carbon tax or a vat tax on energy tax, take your pick. >> cheryl, what about man in all this? what about man's life? hostly, i don't want to liken the former vice president to a cult leader, he's notim jones or david coo refresh, but he's add folking suicide in this. we need carbon to live. carbon power is every element of our world and in fact, the more carbon we burn, the longer and better man's life has become and in fact, the less and less carbon and climate related deaths we've had the more carbon we've burned. so to start taxing carbon, it's like taxing breathing or blood,

it will have a suicidal effect on not only business, but mankind in general. >> i want to know if al gore has a television at home. has he been watching what we've been talking about for the last year and a half? we don't have bloody time for a carbon tax right now! we have a lot more other this to talk about and these people, as we've said before, cannot find their way to the bathroo most days. you want to complicate itith a carbon tax that nobody even knows what the hell it is half the time! he's nuts? tell him to go back to the internet. >> as we talk about a potential carbon tax or other taxes, i go back to the issue of what happens to american businesses that are being saddled. we had a health care discussion last segment, now this. what would companies do? do you think that would lead to layoffs? >> well, yes in the sense it's going to cost. >> no -- to cost more. you can debate whether or not, you know, the earth's temperature is rising because of human carbon use. you can debate yes and no and all of that.

the scientific stuff is meaningless when it comes to the fact that what christian saidis absolutely right. this is the wrong time. 've got a big fiscal problem in front of us, a cliff that's going to occur here in the next two or three months if we don't solve it and here is a guy coming along saying, i'm going to complicate it with a carbon thing. that's just nuts! >> it's not just a question of implicating it, it's a question of hurting. imagine al gore landed at plymouth rock. he would say, i want to impose a tax on every tree you c down imagine what the real life negative examples that would result from this type thing. >> jonathan -- >> that's like saying your motto needs to be fish baby fish, when we've whale oil being used to power electricity. we've got to advance somewhere. i agree with the carbon tax. >>ou think carbon -- >> okay carbon isn't poison.

>> i didn't say it was. >> this is the washington mentaly. let's see what wcan get in under the gun. christian, five seconds. >> yeah. i think we all agree that the timing is wrong, but jonathan, you are absolutely dead wrong, especially your being a market guy. you should recognize that the price of car done does not reect its cost and the carbon tax is designed tho do that. but we shouldn't look at it as a big revenue raiser. we should look at it as a way to normalize the market and make it equitable. >> i want to stay on this environmental story because coming up, lights are still out for lots of sandy victims. for lots of sandy victims. now there is a plan t t t t t 4g lte is the fastest.

so, which supeast 4g lte service would yochoose, based on this chart ? don't rush into it, i'm not looking for the fastest answer. obviously verizon. okay, i have a different chart. going that way, does that make a difference ? look at verizon. it's so much more than the other ones. so what ife just changed the format altogether ? isn't that the exact same thing ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks combined.

seyou then. >> nearly three weeks after super storm sandy and thousands of people still without power. now calls to start burying power lines under ground everywhere to keep people out of the dark after future storms. but that could cost as much as $2 million per mile in many cities. tracy, do you think it's worth the cost to avoid the large scale powe outages in the future, like we've just had here? >> you know what, cheryl? the system was fixed with bubble gum and duct tape this most recent time to get the power back on. it's so fragile, theext cool breeze that comes down my block, i will be without power again for a week. you know what? when they created this grid, they did not anticipate the amount of pow we would be needing today. now you're talking about getting electric cars on-line of the my goodness, stop kicking the can down the road with everything we do in this country!

fix it now. it's not for me, for the sake of my grandchildren. they don't need this. >> jonathan, wouldn't the electric power companies just pass it on to the consumer? >> they would. i think, in fact, if you wanted to really me a change here, let's privatize some of those companies, like long island power, i'm guessing where you reside. privatize them. if the money will spent, let it be funded by privat prices or get rid of laws that prevents price going. a lot better and smarter ideas rather than spending orgyver what was a terrible loss of life, but i think ultimately much more of an inconvenience for the economy at large. >> christian, i can see the actor that if we put them underound, this won't happen again. it's an investment now for a payoff later. >> absolutely. undergrounding lines, investing in the smart grid. right nowe lose $20 billion at least per year when there are power outages. we have tenology that's built on a 19th century platform.

and we didn't get to be one of the mo advanced countries in the world by thinking small. we need to bring the othos that we brought to the highway system and commit money over decades to getting this fixed. tracy isabsolutely right. >> i don't know, john. should we put this in a new energy policy? >> there is no doubt about it. we have no energy policy, so we don't know how things like a carbon tax fit into what we're trying to do. we have no long-term grid policy. what christian is saying is correct. ask a politician what's the grid going to look like when it's 2050? they have zero ideas. so when we have things, we patch things back together. we have got to fix this grid and we've got it get to a smart grid with a dc -- >> you want to do all this because of one storm? >> you have the audacity so call this an inconvenience! the people in staten island and long island are so beyond inconvenience! you can not keep kick the can

down the road because it's going to cause a higher electric bill. >> i've got a short amount of time. wayne, last word what, do you think? >> i think it's a fairly simple solution. it's got to be paid for by somehow. just have the people vote on it. say, we want to vote on this. we want to put this underground we don't want to have to do this again and we'll pay the price for it. assess us for it and we'll do it. that's all. just don't let the politicians do it. >> there you go. >> birmingham, alabama, how well that turned out. >> tnk you. christian, thank you for jning us. it's always good to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> coming up, everybody, you better save your money this thanksgiving because come this time next year, government regulations may have you paying ♪

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>> time for what do i need to know for next week. tracy? >> next summer, new regulations are going to kick in. we'll see a pilot shortage. but we already have a pilot shortt annual. th means your ticket prices will go up. go see your family this year while it's not too late. >> john? >> certain investors like wayne rogers, you want to invest alongside. carl eye consequence, he bought into next quick. good time to buy. >> wayne rogers then? >> well, i like davita health care and i'm investing long side mr. buffet. that's been i think health care is going to do well under this president. >> all right. jonathan? >> well, maybe a huge obama rally we've been having. the weakest stocks has been the